Notre Dame is heading into an important off-season coming off a Rose Bowl loss and yet another season without a major trophy to add to the Gug. As Brian Kelly begins preparations for his 12th year with the program, the Irish stand at a bit of a crossroads. Four years after the Kelly 2.0 rebuild following the disastrous 2016 season the team has made the playoffs twice but been dispatched by superior opponents in each appearance. Although the foundation appears solid the major bowl drought continues while the upcoming 2021 season presents many challenges to moving the Irish out of the second tier Notre Dame has occupied in recent years.
Are we preparing to see a Kelly 3.0 rebuild?
This two-part series will examine where Notre Dame is headed as a program, how they judge themselves internally, and how they can improve in the future. Today’s article will cover more broad off-the-field issues while part 2 will look more specifically at personnel challenges for next fall and beyond.
Bang on Your Ceiling
Notre Dame needs to take stock of the program and figure out their ceiling in the immediate future. They say that National Championships are the goal and I want to believe them. Although, I wonder if the school as a whole is a little too comfortable with their place within the national pecking order right now?
When the vast majority of your fans and the vast majority of the country agree that you’re too far away from competing with Alabama, Ohio State, and Clemson is there really a fire in your belly to catch them? Did Notre Dame roll back to South Bend from Texas this past weekend and feel pretty satisfied with a great season? The competent national media generally regards Notre Dame as the little engine that could with borderline patronizing comments following a performance such as the Rose Bowl–do the players and coaches get sick of that?
One may argue whether it makes a difference if Brian Kelly, Jack Swarbrick, or anyone else publicly proclaims title number 12 is the goal or if they actually believe it. Maybe we can quibble about what they can really do right now to close the gap with Alabama & Co. who seem invincible compared to Notre Dame. Many seem to think there’s not much to do except wait for Nick Saban to retire.
Even if we concede there’s little Notre Dame can do (I don’t concede that) I personally worry about the culture and attitude if you normalize this type of losing or if there’s not a lot of upset people on campus. It’s been well over a decade and I find it frustrating to still hear, “Well, Kelly’s done such a better job than Charlie Weis” because that attitude almost guarantees you’re not going to reach your ceiling. I shudder to think this is in any way a point of comparison from anyone affiliated with the program today.
The way 2021 shapes up it’s almost assured Kelly has reached his ceiling at Notre Dame unless there’s something magical coming in the next couple years and the Elite Monsters winning all the titles suddenly implode. Both need to happen simultaneously which only furthers my worry that there may be no major push from Notre Dame to review what can be done to make the jump to elite status.
I’m not saying it’s time to put him on the hot seat and cut ties but is Notre Dame in any way applying pressure to Kelly and monitoring the landscape seeking a path for the future to get better? In other words, do they see Kelly’s ceiling as Notre Dame’s modern ceiling too?
Or, think about this: If the offense underperforms in a big way next year would Notre Dame even consider the notion of firing Tommy Rees? Maybe that seems drastic thinking about today but don’t you have to examine that as a possibility if you aspire to be an elite program?
In times like these, I see a strong tendency to rally around Brian Kelly. I get it, but it also makes me cringe. There’s room to get better and giving Kelly a pat on the back for finishing 4th or 5th doesn’t help Notre Dame’s culture. Some criticism may be over the top and wrongheaded–and we’re a million miles from saying things are bad of course–but proper criticism is healthy and needed.
Rebuild or Reload?
Nearly all talk about the 2021 season that I’ve read so far centers around the schedule being quite friendly. Put another way, Notre Dame isn’t catching the top teams (again) but might have a really good record all the same. That’s what I get out of it when the focus isn’t necessarily on how good Notre Dame can be but their schedule being softer.
We’re at a point now where it should be obvious that going 11-1 without beating any great teams isn’t much of an accomplishment anymore. I hate being the Standards Police but this is a different Notre Dame now than 2016.
Obviously, it’s a tricky and delicate balance trying to do what’s best for 2021 versus planning for the future. In fact, usually they are one and the same. Nevertheless, it’s worth considering trying to rebuild the program in a different way that raises the ceiling moving forward. After all, if you’re doing all you can to maximize and squeeze out wins next fall without truly progressing the program what have you really achieved? Modest excitement that the schedule will be weak once more so you can repeat things again?
Notre Dame seems stuck which makes the advantages of a reload not as important. If you finish 2021 with a 11-2 record but still with big questions about the offense, still far behind Alabama & Co, and you’re signing the 11th rated recruiting class that’s pretty much the same fate as finishing 9-4 is it not?
Recruiting
This could be a blown out feature on its own and highlights the crux of Notre Dame’s problems right now.
Recruiting misses in combination with these positive 2017-20 on-field results are going to be part of Kelly’s story at Notre Dame and it may be too late to overcome this unless things change quickly. The question is how much better can Notre Dame recruiting get and can it get there quickly, while the answers to those questions are most definitely tied to where the Irish self-diagnose their ceiling.
I’m seeing a lot of criticism of Kelly and the program for seemingly dropping the ball in this department and a lot excuse-making as well. I’m very much with the former group while recognizing Notre Dame’s unique challenges.
Notre Dame just has to do better in recruiting and do a thorough examination of their entire process. I can’t think of anything more important moving forward for the program and it’s here the leaders above Kelly really need to focus their efforts.
Recruiting at an elite level is not a guarantee of anything.
But not doing so IS a guarantee of getting left out.
This is the first time two teams with a Blue Chip Ratio of 80% have met in the CFB Championship. https://t.co/8zuQiM1bQl pic.twitter.com/Dt5RSP13BI
— Bud Elliott (@BudElliott3) January 2, 2021
Here’s a list of recruiting excuses I’ve read in recent days:
- Elite recruits don’t want the academic challenge
- Notre Dame’s admissions standards are too strict
- They have to wait too long to offer scholarships due to transcripts
- The assistants don’t make enough money
- The recruiting office is too small and underfunded
- Other schools have better facilities
This list of complaints really isn’t any different than it was in 2009 or 1987 or 1968–in a lot of cases they are an automatic response to insolate criticism of the staff whether there’s a lot of truth to them or not. Some areas do make things difficult (academics are an issue for many recruits) and that’s nothing new but Notre Dame has made tremendous strides during Brian Kelly’s tenure of modernizing the program to help recruiting.
In this light, I don’t see a lot of room to criticize Brian Kelly. Since day one, he’s continually pushed for more especially when it comes to money and facilities, while he’s won a lot of those battles. That is an important legacy! Plus, they are better than ever at identifying kids earlier, establishing relationships, the coaching staff makes competitive money, and the facilities are world-class for a D-1 football team.
However, a few things have likely occurred in recent years which has hamstrung their efforts. One, the staff as a whole are not super strong recruiters, so much so that a 43-8 record over the past 4 seasons hasn’t moved the recruiting needle. This is a major red flag. Two, Brian Kelly as a recruiter isn’t enough to overcome a subpar staff and he’s never been known to be a killer recruiter. This is not an ideal combination. Three, the recruiting office likely gets far too comfortable self-selecting cultural fits.
Notre Dame has worked hard at addressing program deficiencies but one thing that has remained constant for several years from those close to things is that Kelly is not a tireless recruiter. In most ways, the academic hurdles will always be present at Notre Dame but having a head coach who is not a maniacal recruiter is a significant handicap. It’s just so hard to think the Irish can’t get better when the coach is built this way.
With what we know about Irish recruiting these days is anyone surprised that the top 2 commits for 2022 are offensive linemen and the other 2 include a 3-star tight end and 3-star linebacker with legacy connections? One phone call likely sealed the deal for each of those recruits–that’s the easy part to recruiting.
So, maybe Notre Dame can’t gain on the elite teams in talent acquisition right now but you’re also allowing a lot of other Top 20 programs to catch up and pass you and I’m not sure that’s due to academic hurdles. Wouldn’t it be nice if Notre Dame handily out-recruited a Michigan program that has gone 29-16 over the last 4 years? Catching Alabama is one thing but moving past crisis-packed Michigan another thing altogether.
My biggest question is does Notre Dame truly feel like they need to beef up recruiting or are they satisfied? Brian Kelly’s comment after the 2018 playoffs and again this past weekend suggests he understands the need to improve, so can we expect any staff under him to start recruiting better or should there be growing frustration from what flows from the top of the program?
There are many stones worth overturning. People love to talk about Alabama’s army of a recruiting office tracking down players all over the country. Should Notre Dame beef up their operation too? Does there need to be more scrutiny on director of scouting Bill Rees who–setting aside cronyism–is now in his mid-60’s and could the Irish upgrade to a better department as a whole? Is there need for better communication and goals for this department in conjunction with the coaching staff?
Too often, Irish fans believe the restrictions are too tough or that millions dollars more are needed to improve recruiting. While there’s truth to each of those areas the biggest difference between Brian Kelly and Nick Saban is that the latter is positively obsessed with recruiting and puts an enormous amount of detailed work on his plate and demands his assistants be great, too. Has there ever been that kind of accountability in South Bend?
Defensive Coordinator
Let’s say Notre Dame elects to stay in-house and promote Mike Elston from defensive line coach and associate head coach to the vacant defensive coordinator position. From a coaching perspective I’m sure it will be fine. We can point to player development occurring under Elston’s watch, that he’s super familiar with Notre Dame’s culture, and that he’s qualified enough to run a competent defense with the tools at his disposal.
Is just fine good enough, though?
Elston has been a plus-recruiter during his time at Notre Dame but I’m not sure things are changing all that much for the program if he gets this job. You’d then have to seek out a tremendous recruiter for the vacated linebacker coaching position and even then it’s unlikely one position coach transforms much anyway.
Of course, taking care of the product on the field is paramount so the coaching aspect can’t just be tossed aside in favor of recruiting. I also won’t preemptively judge any new hire as doing so has been shown to be hilariously inaccurate in the past from all corners of the country. Elston might grow into the best DC of the Kelly era, for all we know.
What is worth thinking about is a Notre Dame program with Tommy Rees and Mike Elston as coordinators together with Brian Kelly as head coach. If you are fanatical about getting better, raising your ceiling, and trying something different this wouldn’t seem to be the best route to success. Of course, it could work but if you told me in 2011 that this would be Notre Dame’s coaching set up I’d be a little concerned.
***
Recently, Brian Kelly was heavily criticized for being upset after the Alabama loss and it was one of those difficult moments for the Notre Dame coach where frustration and exasperation collide in a big way.
On losing by this margin again:
The margin is not the issue. Losing is losing…This wasn’t a matter of getting knocked off the ball or not having enough players to compete against Alabama. This was about making plays…I guess everybody needs to continue to carry this narrative that Notre Dame is not good enough. Look at the scores of the games that Alabama has played all year, and I think we need to start to change the narrative a little bit.
On what to do to take the next step:
They had the college football player of the year who made some dynamic plays. We battled. We were right there. So we’re going to keep getting back here…and I’m sorry if you don’t like it or if the national media doesn’t like it, but we’re going to go back to work. We’re going to keep recruiting and we’re going to put ourselves back in this position again.
On being congratulated for a successful season:
That would be nice if our local people felt that way. But they don’t use any of those kinds of those terms. This is always about where our program needs to go. So I appreciate that.
On being asked again about taking the next step:
I don’t have a unique problem at Notre Dame. I think you need to look at the scores that everybody played against Alabama and Clemson. Everybody’s got the same issue…so we’re going to keep recruiting. We’re going to keep getting back here and everybody can keep saying, you know, Notre Dame is not good enough. You know what? You’re going to have a problem because we’re going to keep winning games and keep getting back here and we’re going to break through.
On whether the Irish can still get elite talent:
No, we think we can get there…we have to continue to find more playmakers. And we’ll keep working at it. We’re committed to doing it and we’re not going away…So great year. It’s not where we wanted it. We wanted to win a National Championship. But Notre Dame Nation, you guys can get some sleep, recharge your battery. And we’re going to get ourselves back in this position again. So you don’t need to jump off a bridge, a building. We’re going to keep working. We’re going to rededicate ourselves in the offseason, back in the weight room. And we hope to get right back here in Dallas next year.
Everyone should know Kelly gets very defensive in moments like these and it colors his comments in a big way. Most of the time I like that about him, but you can also see how that attitude veers into not seeing things clearly (for example, framing it like we had a bunch of red zone opportunities and the sole difference was Devonta Smith) and that’s where he can get into trouble.
I thought it was pretty clear that Kelly was proud of how well Notre Dame performed physically and with that I agree. I don’t think it’s a massive accomplishment but I can see how he thought the media would be more impressed.
For me, I think Kelly knows what needs to be done even when he does get defensive. He wants plaudits for the season and doesn’t like some of the criticism and to me I chalk most of that up to being fiery. He’s prone to making excuses in the heat of a press conference but I don’t think that clouds his judgement on bettering Notre Dame football.
The larger concern is what Swarbrick and others in power at Notre Dame think, how they view this loss in context of the current environment, and if they feel that Kelly is someone who can ultimately get the Irish to the next level. I’m sure Kelly believes he can do it but his bosses have to agree and foster surroundings in South Bend that actually reinforce the desire to make the jump.
Upcoming in the final Part II we will look at 6 questions surrounding Notre Dame’s roster for 2021.
Lots of great analysis and questions.
(1) What do you have in mind when you say: “Nevertheless, it’s worth considering trying to rebuild the program in a different way that raises the ceiling moving forward.”
(2) Totally agree – this is shocking in a way on how poorly we’ve recruiting given the on-field product: “One, the staff as a whole are not super strong recruiters, so much so that a 43-8 record over the past 4 seasons hasn’t moved the recruiting needle. This is a major red flag.”
Why can’t we attract top assistants who can both recruit *and* coach? You would think as a premier program we could at least get a top 10 coach at each position group.
This seems to be a big issue: “There are many stones worth overturning. People love to talk about Alabama’s army of a recruiting office tracking down players all over the country. Should Notre Dame beef up their operation too? Does there need to be more scrutiny on director of scouting Bill Rees who–setting aside cronyism–is now in his mid-60’s and could the Irish upgrade to a better department as a whole? Is there need for better communication and goals for this department in conjunction with the coaching staff?”
But it’s always hard on the outside to know how this compares. You’ve given indications that we are way behind and if we are then yea this needs serious improvement.
(3) Totally agree on the DC. Elston doesn’t move the needle much. And to me, dovetailing with my comment above, this is where we need to be in a position to hire the premier guy out there – who can both coach at a high level and be an elite recruiter – that is, if we are really going to be an elite program. Elite programs not only recruit the best players but also the best coaches.
We talked about this in the writers’ room yesterday – broadly speaking I agree with Eric but I differ on a few key details about recruiting.
I think this staff is mostly good recruiters, actually. Certainly I think ND is carrying less recruiter deadweight than at any point in BK’s tenure, which isn’t to say that they’re all doing as well as they could be, but I don’t think it’s the main thing holding us back. In particularly I think it’s clearly a stronger group of recruiters than the 2012 staff, which landed BK’s strongest class by a good margin (even if you don’t count Vanderdoes).
Kelly still isn’t as involved as Swinney and Meyer, for sure, but he’s way more involved in recruiting than he was pre-reboot. *Way* more involved.
So what’s the main problem, then? I do think that the staff writes off more guys than they should, the “cultural fits” point Eric mentioned. A couple of things I think are a problem that Eric didn’t mention are that they move slower than they should and that Kelly reportedly doesn’t demand as much accountability from his staff for recruiting results as he could. I don’t see a problem with offering a guy early and making it clear that the offer is contingent on academic performance or particular courses or whatever. There are guys we could have a real shot at if we got in on them when everyone else does. And you get the performance you expect, one way or another. I think he could lean on some guys more and make it clear that continued employment is connected to recruiting success.
That has happened to some extent, to be fair. Otherwise Autry Denson would still be coaching ND’s running backs. I also think the pandemic has been a massive drag on 2021 recruiting – it’s just reality that a lot of kids won’t get ND until they visit – and is dragging on 2022 recruiting too. We desperately need visits to open back up.
(1) For me, I’d be looking at a change in offensive philosophy, going in a direction where (if he can handle it) you lean on Buchner a lot in 2021, maybe shift your focus away from recruiting so many OL/TE in favor of more WR/DB, stuff like that. Maybe get back to more of his up-tempo roots. Take risks in recruiting and see if it pays off. Really re-evaluate your recruiting set up and what your assistants are doing.
(2) I think everything rolls down hill from Kelly. It’s not easy recruiting to Notre Dame and if the head coach isn’t a dog it trickles down to the staff. Holtz could get away with being hands off 30 years ago. I don’t think it’s possible anymore for the ND head coach.
Recruiting operations are always kind of secret-y aren’t they? In recruiting circles they say Bama has an office of 15 to 20 people. We supposedly have like 5 with some student interns, who really knows? Does Bama really need that many? It’s not like they are scouting a 3-star in Connecticut who they think will be a starter for them. You can only spam recruits so much with mail and social media.
I personally have a lot of skepticism that we need (many) more bodies in the office or that’s what separates Bama from us. Seems to be an extension of modern college bloated spending, but that’s just me. I think the few who do scout and the coaches interacting is a million times more important.
I just think when you read things about Saban recruiting and how he handles things and lays it out for the whole program, it’s like he’s already operating in an environment where he’d flourish at Notre Dame. That attention to detail and drive I think is what is missing.
We’ll always talk about what if Urban came here in 2005 or whatever. But for me, Saban’s whole philosophy about recruiting would’ve been a homerun at Notre Dame. If I could go back in time I’d pluck him away from Michigan State 20 years ago it’s a no-brainer. His authoritative approach to recruiting and ability to teach, combined with the way he’s reinvented himself (offensively especially), damn he would’ve dominated at ND no doubt about it, while Urban would’ve burnt and flamed out. I’ve always really liked Kelly but he’s just not that type like Saban and I think that’s the biggest “problem” right now.
(3) I agree, obviously. A week ago it kind of felt like Elston was the heavy favorite but it does seem like Kelly is going with a big search.
I think the “pressure” needs to go both directions. I’m guessing the satisfaction with these performances probably is different between the athletic department and university as a whole. There should be questions to BK about how you do the things necessary to “close the gap” (quickly becoming my least favorite topic) and knowing recruiting is part of that equation, the right amount of pressure to improve performance there. At the same time I think BK could and should continue to push for resources to make that happen from ND – investment in salaries and expanded staff, recruiting, etc. You don’t get the best DC on the market without these things when competing against Texas and LSU.
I actually think if you averaged out the fanbase there’s a pretty fair perception of BK – that he’s a very good coach, certainly a massive upgrade over the last few guys that we are super appreciative of. For a while now it’s felt like his legacy will be having re-stabilized the program, getting to the edge of titles and being part of a lot of incremental improvements that over time led to this stretch where ND is at the top of Tier II. But it’s measured praise – I don’t think with the big-game failures (not just losing as an underdog, but not really threatening in the BCS / playoff games, plus the close but no cigar regular season games until Clemson) there’s risk of over the top praise either.
I think the “raise the ceiling” section raises a couple interesting points. First, it’s important to have a sober view of how far off we are. I worry that there’s a mentality we are just a few tweaks or a QB or good couple classes away, when in reality, the gap is significant and the playoff makes the task extremely difficult. You can catch breaks and friendly schedules to get there, but we aren’t close to beating Bama/Clemson/OSU twice. Playing the “just need some playmakers” or “what if Julian Love wasn’t out game”, in the context of program building, is unhelpful. It gets treated as a cause for that one loss versus a symptom of the greater disadvantage in talent where our margin for error is zero in these games.
Second, being far off to me implies it will take a while to get closer. If Buchner is amazing that will help but Trevor Lawrence just went 1 for 3 in the playoff, it takes far more than that. The Tommy question posed on if he should be fired if this coming year is bad feels like the wrong way this could go – you could demand ELITE everything and flail around a long time trying to find it. Texas has not come close to our level of success and it has nothing to do with a lack of investment or trying to low standards, the process of figuring out how to actualize it is just super difficult.
This is a super important point: “The Tommy question posed on if he should be fired if this coming year is bad feels like the wrong way this could go – you could demand ELITE everything and flail around a long time trying to find it. Texas has not come close to our level of success and it has nothing to do with a lack of investment or trying to low standards, the process of figuring out how to actualize it is just super difficult.”
It’s why I think it was a good idea that we held on to Kelly after 2016 – there is a far cliff that we could fall off too. And that doesn’t mean settling but boom or bust isn’t necessarily the best way to actually reach the pinnacle.
I agree with your premise here, but your commentary regarding Texas requires some context. They’re about where we were after Holtz. They’re in their “post elite” zone where they’re having major struggles replacing Mack Brown, they’re still getting great names and they’re dominating Texas recruits but they cant put it together. They have mediocre years after terrible ones and can never beat their chief rival and it’s really pissing off their entire fan base and alumns. So they need to find their Kelly to pull them out of their version of the Bob Weisingham era.
We’ve already done that and the step WE need to take is the one Clemson did in 2014/15. They were always really really good and RIGHT THERE in the big games and on the national stage but CLEMSONING was a thing. It wasn’t until Dabo came in revamped a ton and totally shifted the mindset of that program and eliminated CLEMSONING that really pushed them to where they are today. I think that’s the goal we need to set for ourselves.
To be clear that was Michael’s original point. But I don’t think Texas now is like ND was during the Bob Weisingham era. We didn’t have the talent even if finally during Weis we got some elite offensive recruits. Texas has got the talent. They are top 5 in talent this year. They aren’t putting it together but they don’t need a Kelly to raise the whole level of the program. They just need a good coach to take the raw talent they have and play some good football. In some ways Texas is in a much better position than we are now (it’s an institutional) where if with a good coach they can just back into the top 5 immediately with that kind of talent. In that respect, they are more like the Clemsoning stage where they have talent but aren’t winning (in the big games).
But the problem is it’s not about taking the “next” step because that step is different for various programs. It’s not just that we can’t win the big game. We actually have great coaching, we just need better players.
1000% agree.
I do think that’s really important to remember. That’s why I think nudging recruiting forward will be super helpful–maybe not right away in 2023–but when Alabama/Clemson start to fall apart and we can slide up further in the national scene.
I don’t think we can continue on this trajectory without the Michigan, USC’s, and Penn State’s of the world becoming much more likely to stabilize and ultimately slide past us when those elite programs crumble. That would suck.
That’s why I feel like there should be big urgency to raise the ceiling now, not to win a title in a couple years as the standard, but really solidify yourself as the 5th best program in the country awaiting the downfall of those evil empires.
I agree with a lot of the earlier points — here are some of my thoughts:
(1) Yes, BK got burned on some bad fit star players in the past, but do not go overboard regarding RKG and fit — ignore the obvious bad fits, but go after others. Rees the Elder seems to be good at helping the staff find underrated guys, but go harder after the highly ranked players too. Elston is doing great on the d-line with diamonds in the rough, but try to mix in some more 4/5 stars.
(2) Be more demanding with the staff and recruiting. If the stud receivers are not progressing and getting on the field, and there are gaps in the receiver depth chart where we had a year of Javon, Ben, and Avery, then push Alexander (or replace him). They did this with cornerbacks, and Mickens seems to be an improvement with recruiting.
(3) Go after stud QBs every single year — it seems like they are content with chasing highly ranked QBs every other year and settling for a bridge/back-up type the other years. If some transfer, that’s okay. If you miss on a star, you can still find a low 4-star or 3 star for depth. And the recent grad transfer shows that they can fill a gap that way if needed.
(4) This might be more for the next article, but give Tommy some freedom to open up the offense while still including your strength at TE. Tommy had his hands tied this year with no speedy receivers and a QB who was good but who was unwilling to throw farther than 10 yards. Now that those constraints might be lifted, open it up.
Instead of being incremental with changes, go all in on these updates right away.
Our WR recruiting has been relatively good the past 2 cycles.
WR recruiting isn’t anywhere near Bama/tOSU level, but Johnson, Watts, Styles, Clozie, Thomas is arguably our best positional haul over the past 2 classes.
For reference. Here are the position groups with the national ranking for 2020/2021.
QB – #65, #225
RB – #69, #244, #539 (pending)
WR – #36, #98, #115, #308, #382, #776
DL – #116, #119, #158, #399, #623, #1000
LB – #153, #577, #580, #591
CB – #313, #516, #558, #564, #611, #702, #727
S – #390, #565
I would rank these: WR, DL, RB, QB,…, LB, DB
**All of the above excludes OL/TE because those are obviously wildly better and actually elite level.
Our problem this year was Austin/Lenzy/Keys/Jones (all 2018 4 stars) contributed nothing and we couldn’t get Johnson on the field, which was compounded by the AWFUL 2019 WR class.
It’s strange that early on DelVaughn seemed to really be able to coach up guys, but now that he’s got some good talent, albeit with some availability issues, we don’t have much to show for it.
What I have concluded after looking into this a bit, is that outside of OL and TE, our recruiting is even worse than I thought.
It would be interesting to compare the OL/TE numbers if you have those handy – just to see where we should be at with other positions.
Re: Secondary = WOW that’s bad. Though the rest of the defense is not much better. Wonder how that has compared to the previous 2 years but I would guess that we are on a downward trend with defense recruiting – which again given our on-field success is really bad.
ND
OL: #52, #60, #99, #145, #324, #395
TE: #31, #234, #225, #491
USC
OL: #356, #381, #689, #721, #792, #897, #1087, #1240, #1264
TE: #128, #479
UM
OL: #85, #210, #265, #275, #322, #418, #438
TE: #273, #400
tOSU
OL: #9, #17,#108, #124, #463, #510, #852, #1140
TE: #389, #413
Bama:
OL: #2, #5, #54, #186, #248, #333, #390, #476
TE: #494, #622
For bama, the #2-#248 were all this year, their OL class last year sucked.
So we aren’t getting the 5 star OL that Bama/tOSU are, but we are getting comparable top 100s and 4 stars. Out recruiting them all for TEs!!! Blowing the pants off USC and UM in both these areas.
(1) If only we could turn out TE recruiting into a real weapon on gameday. I mean who was the last TE we’ve had that’s been a gamebreaker despite consistently sending TE’s to the NFL? Eifert? I mean even Brock Wright who has barely played thinks he’s heading to the NFL and with his size/speed maybe he will (i have no idea).
So why doesn’t that translate into some kind of noticeably advantage come gameday? Is that scheme or is it just the natural limitation of the position?
(2) Yea it’s tough though that we are getting out-recruiting even at our very best position. If we could even just pull-even on the OL we’d take that as a huge win. Which may require 1 5 star OL every 2 years.
(2B) Wow that’s gotta be the reason that USC has been so bad despite the QB’s it brings in and I imagine the skill-position players too.
(3) That does put the other positions in context though. We should be getting at least 1 top 100 recruit at the other position groups every 2 years – and we haven’t done that on defense at all. But then a couple top 250 players at LB and CB/S every 2 years (so like 1 per year) would be the least we should be doing. (And this is talking about those elite guys we need to be pulling that we haven’t but we’ve fallen off even from the low 4 star guys too.)
Based on the overall numbers and performance on the field, I think our OL recruiting is good enough for us to win a NC. Sure, who wouldn’t want it to improve, but I don’t think we’d really notice if it did. A lot of other areas I’d push harder in recruiting before worrying about getting a few 5 star OL.
That’s true. I just meant that if we excel there it may be easier to improve overall. Top guys already want to come so if we could capitalize on that even more that would be great since one of the ways to get better overall is to really emphasize your strengths. It would perhaps compensate more for weaknesses elsewhere.
I can’t tell you the names of any tight ends Bama, OSU or Clemson has had in their domination, but I can reel off a page of WRs, RBs and QBs.
We are rightfully proud of our TEs, but that’s not what the other teams are using to win championships. I’d like to see less on the TE front and WAY more on the WR front.
OFD has a chart up showing academic class on our projected roster and I was blown away at how many years the WRs expected to produce big time have been on campus and done almost nothing. Austin, Lenzy, Keys, Wilkins. Dominant WRs produce almost immediately.
Though injuries play a role in that. And if I’m not mistaken that junior – now senior class has been plagued by injuries (+ a suspension).
All of them all the time? Freshman WRs start at Bama, Clemson and OSU, and star.
“All of them all the time?”
What are you talking about? The simple answer is no. But that doesn’t do anything to the point I made.
“Freshman WRs start at Bama, Clemson and OSU, and star.”
Who said otherwise?
I don’t understand where this objection is coming from or the point of it.
But of course any time a player is injured it will prevent them from playing and perhaps get in the way of their development. And it seems the players in that class, Lenzy, Keys, Austin have been plagued by such injuries (+ a suspension).
The net of all that is the entire group has been of no value on the field. Not a recipe for success.
I agree Kelly is clear-eyed that ND needs a talent upgrade to compete. I take what he says in the press conferences with a grain of salt. What’s his other option there when asked was his team just not as good? Saying that his team and players are so much lesser than that they can’t even compete? He knows acknowledging that publicly to a certain know-it-all sports-writer right after his players smashed themselves against Bama for him is a bad move.
I just really hope the pandemic really is the reason why there hasn’t been any movement in recruiting to go get that talent. His kids are grown, he’s got money and opportunities outside coaching if he wanted to walk away. If he isn’t that in to recruiting but knows that that is the reamining piece left to fill he has no excuse now for not going all out personally. If he’s not doing everything he can now to get more elite talent I don’t know what his goal is. Why shorten his life treading water at ND? He seems too practical for that. I get the feeling he does really want to win a championship. But i will admit, I am concerned about the seeming lack of substantive movement in that direction.
How do we know he’s not doing everything he can to get elite talent?
In the time when visits were allowed, according to 247 one 5 star took an official visit in 2019 (Michael Mayer) none visited in 2018. Two visited in 2017 (Nick Petit-Frere, who ended up at tOSU; Amon-Ra St. Brown, USC).
Kelly isn’t even making enough in-roads to get top 50-100 recruits to campus in recent years, pretty much.
Maybe Kelly is trying but they elite kids just aren’t interested, but I tend to doubt Notre Dame is casting as big of a net as possible and doing everything they can. (Cue DJ Uiagalelei saying before the first Clemson game, ND didn’t offer him, didn’t recruit him any more than sending a few pieces of old fashioned mail and he gained no interest in them because they showed no interest in him).
Do you believe DJ could have gotten in?
Are you guys saying that, all things equal, ND (Kelly) isn’t interested in top 100 talent ? Or maybe, they think it unlikely that they can persuade that talent to come to ND, so they give up easily? From what I’ve seen for 2022 they aren’t in on too many in the top 100, what gives ? Is it lack of effort? restrictions ?
Pete Sampson said in his mailbag today that approximately 33% of the top 100 recruits would typically be academic fits at Notre Dame. That limits what they can do, but how many of those 33 players was ND in on and seriously recruiting in 2020? Or 2019? Or 2018?
The results indicate they certainly are not getting enough serious interest from top 100 players, let alone getting them to join the program. In 2020 they only seriously chased one five star (Shipley), who they did invest a ton of time and effort on (and still didn’t persuade him).
Who’s is to say truly what restrictions, but if there are restrictions in place to where ND can only recruit and work hard on ONE single, solitaire ***** player, then maybe we all need to adjust expectations accordingly, because competing for national championships just isn’t going to be possible.
(I don’t believe that to be totally the case, though. Kelly himself has talked about wanting to improve recruiting, which inherently means that he’s acknowledging he needs to make changes to bring in more quality players).
actually i would take that as great news and that they need to start working hard on those 33% much harder.
I missed this…
Are you saying the top quarterback in the country from one of the premier Catholic high schools in the country wouldn’t have gained admissions to Notre Dame to play football?
https://twitter.com/gmraynor/status/1323315909524656129
We never offered or seriously recruited him, accepting Drew Pyne’s commitment 13 months before Uiagalelei committed to Clemson.
Would he really have been interested? Maybe not, but that’s way way different than thinking he couldn’t get into ND.
Which made me laugh, at one point in this season Kelly half-jokingly was complimenting the Clemson QB’s and said something to the effect of “man, I wish I had two QB’s like that”. Which was pretty ironic since Notre Dame didn’t offer either one of them, despite being elite recruits.
I really don’t know why fans just hide behind the academics shield, either, to explain any and all possible reasons for recruiting shortcomings.
Can you come up with another explanation why neither was offered?
There could be a lot of explanations.
Is it your position that we took a commitment from both Pyne and Jurkovec well before either Uiagalelei and Lawrence committed because we knew the Clemson guys couldn’t get into Notre Dame?
Possibly, or they knew they couldn’t get them. If I’m the top QB in my class, being told I’m sure fire NFL, as both Lawrence and DJ were told, the vastly safer choice is Clemson.
Are you saying the coaching staff just took the easy road ? I would also say Pyne and Jurkovec are different cases and there might be totally different reasons for ND’s timing in their recruitments. So, ya I agree, “there could be a lot of explanations”. Most would be quite valid, I suspect.
In other words, it would’ve been too difficult to recruit them, so we didn’t try.
Now, we can argue about the merits of chasing them, wasting time and resources on a possibly small chance they’d come to Notre Dame, and that given Notre Dame’s place in the pecking order it would be wiser to look elsewhere for a quarterback.
On those topics, specifically with Lawrence and DJU, I would likely agree it would’ve been a waste.
However, this just highlights one of many different reasons why we can’t hide behind academics as an excuse for why players won’t come to Notre Dame.
The Irish coaching staff has a difficult job in sorting through which Top 150 players to target and I don’t envy them. But, we pass on a lot of great players for non-academic reasons.
“It would have been to difficult to recruit them”, or pointless ? And those “non academic reasons” are? Do you mean like David Abiari type reasons ?
Once again you conflate “the reasons for” as “excuses”. Those academic hurdles exist and saying that we use them as excuses does not change that Notre Dame has them.
Recruiting takes time, money and effort. None of which have an infinite supply. A month ago there was lots of complaining that the staff had put all their eggs in the Will Shipley basket and how that was a mistake. (Luckily it turns out they hadn’t) They had a legit shot at Shipley. Others they do not. Whether it be a player’s lack of interest or the administration putting up barriers, I think it a wise thing that they don’t waste time with players they don’t have a legit shot at.
Let me add,
Many here seem to think if ND offers and recruits the kid, he will come to South Bend. (Not you E) ND offers and chases many big gets. (Rucci, Trengwell, Wright, etc. this year) Puts in much time and effort and just loses out, for whatever reason. I suppose it could be bad recruiting in some way. That said, ND is trying to identify players they have a shot at getting in and working on those that seem to have interest in the school. If both those criteria don’t exist, to some level, there is little sense in putting much effort into recruiting a player.
The non-academic reasons why we didn’t recruit DJU or Lawrence is that it would be too hard for Notre Dame to sign them.
Determining which players we shouldn’t waste our time on is the whole crux of the matter. Kelly is not perfect in making this determination, no one is.
You have to fight in recruiting, too. It’s not just a matter of printing out a spreadsheet of who checks the boxes as fitting at Notre Dame (mistakes can be made on how you determine who fits the boxes too!) and talking to them.
Every coach makes mistakes about fits, about who they should pursue, and about evaluating back up plans.
I responded to Kiwi who wondered if DJU could get into Notre Dame. Why would he say that? THAT is hiding behind academics as an excuse. Of course, I already mentioned it would’ve been unwise to chase DJU (with Jurkovec in the fold) so I’m not sure what you’re disagreeing with me about?
You just said nothing that the coaches at ND don’t worry about every single day in recruiting. It’s their job to know who to go after and it’s a hard lousy one. Add that their careers can depend on it.
They need to “fight in recruiting”. You think that’s breaking news to them ?…”It’s not just a matter of printing out a spreadsheet”. What kind of poppycock is that? Are you seriously suggesting that’s what they do?
Kiwi asked you a question. Unless you’ve seen the kids transcript, you guessed at an answer. That’s no more him looking for an excuse than you making up answer to fit your opinion.
Maybe I’m old-school, but where I come from you don’t just throw out academics about a kid when you don’t have any info. As far as I’m aware there hasn’t been anything of the sort to impugn DJU’s character like that and it’s bush league.
Again, I don’t even know what you’re arguing in favor of here besides just blind support of BK recruiting.
You’re claiming he impugned his character? He could have worded his question better but, “impugned the kid’s character”…please.
I’m not arguing in “favor” of anything. I’m just voicing my opinion to the crowd that thinks if Kelly snaps his fingers or changes his ways recruiting will get better. It’s quite obvious that Kelly has put more emphasis on better recruiting but, that there are roadblocks at ND that other coaches and schools do not face. Does anyone truly think ND has not pow wowed over and over to recruit as best they can. There is not one bit of “advice” I’ve seen in any post here that the ND coaching staff is not aware of or has not tried to address. I’m just shoveling sand against the tide of people that have more than likely never recruited an athlete in their life but think they have the answers.
So discuss it all you want. That’s what we do here, right? Truly, I’m all for it. Voice your opinions. Blame Kelly, blame his coaches, come up with your “innovative” solutions. If I see a good one, I’ll be sure to let you know that too.
Oh no, not people thinking Kelly changing his ways could lead to better recruiting!! What a bunch of monsters we all are.
Clearly something with recruiting has touched a big nerve for you. You seem really angry about it?
Maybe we don’t have any solutions. But it seems awfully odd to me for someone to get so upset about people discussing how recruiting could get better when you’re going to hand out gold stars to Kelly and tell everyone they’re doing their very best.
Great, if you believe that. But, maybe sit on the sidelines if you’re so angry about others not wanting to hand out gold stars?
You’re exaggerations and perversions of what I and Kiwi have said are ridiculous.(Gold Stars, Blind support, impugning) That’s what people seem to do when their own opinions don’t hold up or maybe even are just questioned.
Now I’m “Angry, upset”…more likely it’s justifiable frustration. This last post of yours and surely that last sentence, adding to it.
Hard to attract top QB talent when you haven’t developed a top QB. And I absolutely think it’s fair to say that that is a Brian Kelly problem. Was probably much easier to sell Trevor Lawrence on Clemson after developing Deshaun Watson into a first round draft pick QB. ND had better hope they can develop a QB from their room that can be that guy.
I was asking, not stating
Very interesting article. In it:
“I’m not saying it’s time to put him on the hot seat and cut ties but is Notre Dame in any way applying pressure to Kelly and monitoring the landscape seeking a path for the future to get better?”
Am I crazy for thinking it’s the other way around? I feel like Kelly has dragged the school in a way, maybe not kicking and screaming but to get the indoor facility and to upgrade the training tables…To not having a huge recruiting staff, to not having private travel for your coaches. IMO, Kelly’s moved to modernize and keep up with the big dogs, but it’s more institutional to stay in the comfort zone and not want to change too much, too soon. Not saying they need to have a slide like Clemson or something bananas, but the perception is if Saban or Dabo want it, they get it and quickly. Feels like more of a struggle to upgrade and stay caught up for Kelly, and I don’t think it’s his fault.
Also, I could be way off, but I bet quietly the administration has to be thrilled and very comfortable with where they are. They’re a very strong program that is a threat to make the playoffs deep into most years. And they actually do make it. They are relevant in the picture. But they are also not pushing the boundaries and not spending as much or having to really worry the team will embarrass them or push too far to the extremes. They are stable and good. I think they’re fine with not going towards as much of the seedy underbelly of the sport (greyshirts, 30 analysts, etc).
I’m sure they’ll say the right things about winning a national title, and I believe to a degree they mean it. And they’re all working hard….I just think they could expand further, they could spend more, they could really push to get to the very top level if they truly wanted to. It doesn’t seem to me that investment has been made or that mindset is in place, which I also don’t really totally condemn either.
To echo your point, I suspect ND as an institution knows what they’d probably have to do to give themselves a real shot at a title and don’t feel comfortable doing it. Maybe they’re right to feel that way. It’s just sort of frustrating as fans when we’re investing championship contender levels of capital – emotional and certainly financial (ticket prices) – in the hope that we can get to the top.
This was made perfectly clear when we got outbid for Elko. We were willing to raise once but not get in an arms race. It would be uncouth.
Similarly, I’m not as optimistic about the post-NIL change world for ND. We’re not going to outbid schools or encourage our donors to do so. Similarly uncouth.
I think you might have a point in general, but I don’t really blame Notre Dame for that, given the specific circumstance. Elko was their employee. He got an offer, took it to them, they gave him a raise. To me, that was their obligation. They didn’t just let him go, they tried to keep him.
Then A&M gave him an even better offer. He went back to ND and they basically told him to take that money if it was important to him on a lateral move. To me, that’s OK in that specific case. Especially after A&M gave Jimbo $75 million, they weren’t going to be denied for what they wanted. I’m fine with not throwing unlimited money no matter what, and while Elko is a solid DC, I don’t think it necessary or wise to bend over backwards to keep him.
But let’s see with Marcus Freeman who presumably is going to talk to ND, Texas and LSU, among others. Different situation here with an outsider looking to advance. And, Notre Dame should have an advantage – they just turned a young DC with no HC experience into an SEC head coach. That should be a home run pitch and opportunity for Freeman, who basically wants to be the next Lea.
If Notre Dame can’t/won’t pony up to make that happen and Freeman goes to like Texas, that’s not a good look for the program and would be worse optics to me than the Elko situation.
Funny how Lea ended up a HC (in the SEC…kind of) before Elko.
But Vandy?
That’s fair. And agree that if we get outbid for Freeman that’s basically a full-on confirmation that the administration is totally fine with where the program is in the grand scheme of things.
What we did with Elmo happens all the time in the corporate world. Most companies would do the same thing ND did with Elko when he came back to leverage a second time.
I don’t know what NIL means?
I agree with what you and Hooks are saying Andy. The Admin is pretty happy is my guess, and doing what it would take to become elite is repugnant to them.
You make a lot of great points, and I agree.
If I had to guess, ND isn’t really interested in pushing the boundaries and spending a ton of more money right now. Although, that Gug extension (largely football related) seems to be coming at some point?
I think that sense of being comfortable and satisfied with where they are right now kind of gives me an existential crisis sometimes but I think it’s the reality right now. As you said, ND is generally going to push back on more stuff AND they’ve already given Kelly lots of stuff over the past decade.
That’s why I think Kelly’s recruiting in terms of his personality, organization, and drive are so important. I wonder if Swarbrick is drilling into that more this off-season? Probably not.
Right. Which is kinda why Kelly is a perfect fit and steward for the program right now. He’s not Ryan Day or Dabo or Saban when it comes to recruiting — but if he was he would be way too frustrated to work within the constraints of this university anyways.
Which, I mean I agree ND needs an HC to push the issue to recruit better…But how much better can that coach really do right now? I’m not standing on the hill to imply Kelly is perfect or doing all he can, he has room for improvement too, which I think he’s more or less acknowledged.
To your existential crisis, I think the only answer is really luck. What if Brandon Wimbush would have been more like Deshaun Watson? Or if Phil Jurkovec would have been OK not Trevor Lawrence, but something in the same area? That to me is the only way ND has a hope of breaking through — recruit and develop a 1st round QB who will advance the program on his own.
But even then, ND is still probably more like Oklahoma (great QBs usually, but more sizzle than steak) than a Clemson/Bama type sustaining juggernaut. But imagine if the 2018 or 2020 ND team (defense) had a Mayfield/Murray even Hurts as QB. They might well have competed on the field in the playoffs.
Not without the receivers to complement the QB.
Why do you think Kelly isn’t doing all he can? I mean why do you draw that conclusion Eric?
Because it’s been 12 years and those who get paid to follow recruiting–and frankly have a vested interest in using kid’s gloves with the current coaching staff and administration–have consistently stated that Kelly is a lackluster recruiter in some areas.
Would you please name some names? And they’re saying “certain areas” vis a vis Position? Geography? Technique? Effort? Tools? Operations? Personality? And what do the players he actually recruited and have played for him have to say, I wonder?
Yet he’s delivered more ND wins than anyone not named Rockne. I still think Lou and Ara, whom he passed, were better coaches, but still……
I don’t particularly care for the guy, but I think he’s done a great job given the restrictions he operates under. And he doesn’t strike me as non introspective or lazy. He’s the “man in the arena” with all the conflicting pressures of coaching ND football and we’re all just the carpers on the outside. No wonder he lashed out in his last press conference.
You seem committed to the notion that ND policies have little effect on elite recruiting. Many would disagree based on the empirical data. There’s a reason Urban didn’t come here, and none of the proven elites ever will IMO unless things change that the Administration has no interest in changing. So when Kelly leaves, we’ll take a flyer on an unproven up and comer from a lesser program and hope he’s at least as good as Kelly.
The university is committed to saying what we want to hear about championships being the goal, but those of us who’ve been around awhile are tired of the talk without the walk. I’d rather they be honest and say frankly they do not want championships if they have to do what the elites do, and why. That frankness by a high profile, respected school with the brand platform they have might actually draw enough scrutiny to change things in CFB.
Or not. Possibly there’s nothing wrong with what the other guys are doing. Rather than solely the “student athlete” we hold above all else, they cater to the stud athlete to whom the degree is secondary to making millions on Sundays, as well as to the student athletes. Things don’t have to be mutually exclusive IMO.
Do you think I’m unboxing a secret about Kelly’s recruiting mojo? This has been common knowledge from all of the recruiting analysts, both local and national, for a number of years.
This is absolutely false. In fact, Notre Dame’s restrictions only highlight why a better recruiter at the head coach is so crucial.
Is it your belief that Brian Kelly is beyond reproach for his recruiting and/or is a perfect recruiter?
No I do not think Kelly is beyond reproach as a recruiter, because I have no personal way of evaluating it, nor do you, frankly. Heresay is hearsay, nothing more. What’s the record of the analysts, by the way? How many “can’t misses” have they gotten wildly wrong? Every year? How many predictions do they get wrong, every year? Easy to pontificate and criticize with no consequences. Much harder to deliver in the arena.
I think his record is pretty amazing regardless, given ND restrictions. Could someone do better? Surely possible, but the odds are stronger that it’s a crapshoot that could go in the direction of worse.
I do get your point that a better recruiter may do better, even under the ND restrictions, but better enough to break into the elites, who have virtually unrestricted access in recruiting?
I guess we’ll both see soon enough which way it goes. I doubt Kelly can take the pressure much longer. And he doesn’t need it, other than for ego purposes.
I hope we go up, but my money is on the university standing pat on “good enough”.
This…
Kind of sounds like you do think he’s beyond reproach! Also, I chuckled at the typo that nearly gave us “heresy” which I think is fitting given the context of your comments.
Are you speaking specifically & only to recruiting here?
Anyway, it’s kind of difficult to go with the “no one really knows anything about recruiting” and then argue for or against anything Kelly or Notre Dame does in recruiting.
Kind of seems like you just want to argue for arguing’s sake.
That’s pretty much his M.O., E. Name-calling and ridicule with no basis for it. Makes every board he’s on worse for having to listen to his drivel
The only person I recall ever ridiculing is you, actually. Others I may disagree with acerbically, but you I confess I have ridiculed. I’ll try to do better.
As far as the ridicule, I think you did a hell of a job at it. No need to improve there. (Kidding)
Regarding the second greened box, I don’t see how you draw that conclusion, that I think Kelly is beyond reproach, from my actual words. In fact, while the typo is funny, you have no direct knowledge. My career was spent evaluating talent at the very senior level as a professional headhunter. I never took someone else’s opinion on whether an executive was fit for a position. I evaluated the person myself and made my recommendation. Made a ton of money at it.
Where did I say nobody knows anything about recruiting? What I said was these guys make tons of mistakes yet they feel free to throw stones at people actually in jobs they themselves are not qualified to do themselves. You differ with that factually?
I was speaking of Kelly’s overall performance,including recruiting. I’ve explained why elsewhere why, under the circumstances, he’s done very well.
I thought we were discussing, rather than arguing, which I thought was the point of this site? Sometimes I agree with you and say so and credit you, sometimes I disagree and give my reasons why.
Is that really a problem.
“I do get your point that a better recruiter may do better, even under the ND restrictions, but better enough to break into the elites, who have virtually unrestricted access in recruiting?”
Kiwi it doesn’t seem to me you don’t think recruiting could improve some. It seems you’re saying it could but, to what degree? The talk with Kelly’s effort in recruiting, from those covering the team, has shifted from pointing the finger at Kelly to pointing at his restrictions more so. Eric would have to admit that, in the last few years, there is less talk of Kelly being the problem in recruiting and more of recruiting being handcuffed by ND.
I find myself agreeing with you quite often these days. That wasn’t always the case. I think some of the reason for that, is you and I have been following this team for much longer than most on this site. Some of these issues you and I have seen hashed and rehashed for decades. Some things at ND are what they are and you can either accept them or not. Some of the newer faces (not all) either don’t understand the issues or think they shouldn’t matter or they want ND to “fix” them. Some don’t seem to understand that these are real roadblocks and that ND doesn’t think they need fixing. Did we always understand this is how it is? I’m not so sure…Having now accepted it, perhaps us grizzled fans tire of having to rehash these things and it shows up in our posts.
Why does one read this site if not for hearsay?
There have been many recruits over the years who have said that Saban/Meyer/Harbaugh had much more contact with them than Kelly.
Harbaugh is creepy in his devotion to recruiting, but Saban and Meyer recruit relentlessly without having sleepovers with underage boys.
Does Harbaugh really do that? I had no idea.
In any event his recruiting prowess hasn’t produced results, especially on a compensation adjusted basis.
Lets submit for the record that whomever you care to name is more involved and effective at recruiting than Kelly. But let’s also be real about the universes they operate in vs the one the ND coach, whoever he is, must operate in. It’s the elephant in the room that some refuse to give credence to.
I think this site is about opinions, not so much hearsay. We watch the games and we state opinions as a result, for the most part. And in something as emotion laden as college football, there will be disagreements. That’s what makes it interesting. If we all thought the same way it’d be pretty boring.
Yes, Harbaugh slept over at a recruit’s house.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2609442-jim-harbaugh-sleeps-over-at-recruits-house-for-some-harbaugh-and-chill
It seems like a lot of transfers leaving lately, and some surprising ones on defense like Griffith, Ovie, and Lamb. I read on another site (I think it was Driskell) that there’s something happening (or that happened this past season) that most fans are not aware of that’s causing some of these transfers, but he did not reveal what it is. If there is, it certainly seems relevant to this discussion about fixes this off-season.
Anyone have any insight on this?
2018 was a big class, but by my count, 9 players have/will have transferred (Griffith, Jurkovec, Lamb, Allen, Boykin, Jones, Oghuofo, Franklin, and Smith). 4 out of our top 6 recruits. Ouch.
Wow, yea it’s not just the # transferring but the original quality of the recruit. It’s tough for any class to be good if the top 1/4 of the class ends up leaving (whether they were much good or not).
FWIW, Pete Sampson downplayed it and said it’s guys deep on the depth chart using graduate transfers to get to places where they can get on the field to finish out their careers. (Like Grunhard today announcing he’s going to Kansas, God bless him).
Other than really Griffith nothing surprises me. Lamb barely played this year after starting in dime in 2019. Griffith might have been in line to start, but has also been inconsistent and benched several times, and didn’t start this year at safety because they liked a 5’9 CB whose had like 4 major injuries more, so um, that probably means Griffith doesn’t have a lot.
I think a lot more players are going to be inclined transfer anyways with COVID changing the world and bringing in a big new class can’t help. Also with Lea leaving maybe it just seems like a chapter is closing and everyone’s more inclined to start anew themselves. I wonder with the new 1 transfer with no penalty rule if that will be more of a thing where a bigger % of the players transfer.
It would be interesting to hear if something deeper is at the root of this exodus, though. I just thought it was the natural churn of a roster.
Is the 1 free transfer rule in effect now?
But agreed, there may have been some minor future contributors but nothing that stands out as expected starters leaving.
I wonder if we knew this was coming and why we took such a big class (outside of the new 1 year COVID rules with more scholarships – whatever exactly that rule is for next year).
The one free transfer rule hasn’t hit yet.
When transfers are reserve guys who will likely never see the field, or highly-rated guys who haven’t played as much as they thought they would, I don’t worry too much about it. The number is perhaps a little higher than normal, but I’m not concerned about it at this point.
The transfer we have coming in (Coan) could prove much more important than anyone we’ve lost so far. I don’t think we’re done (DB) there either.
Why did he transfer? Was he not going to start at Wisconsin Tindma? Anybody know?
Seems he got hurt pre season and lost his job.
Thanks, I agree him coming buys us potentially a lot and can’t hurt us.
Yeah, on a micro level, none of these moves are concerning. On a macro level we just lost a lot of top recruits who are going to be SRs.
I think the transfer portal makes the grad transfer especially easy. I assume all or nearly all these guys are graduating, so you’ve got your ND degree and now can play for a year before real life.
Exactly (re: micro and macro).
Perhaps one can take it as a good sign that those guys think the younger players are going to play ahead of them.
On the flip as I said elsewhere here that it’s tough for a lot of one class to transfer and expect to to be a strong class (it’s a bad sign one way or the other, whether it was poor recruiting – even if highly rated, or poor coaching, that the top end of one class didn’t work out.
Boil the macro down though. Jack Lamb was a high recruit, he got a degree. He started out of the dime defense in 2019 but got hurt and was a deep reserve this season, and would be again next year.
Other than Rutherford (who got passed by Lewis and possibly would be passed by more incoming freshmen) I’m not sure how many in the portal are transferring because they’re really good young players that can’t find the field. So that’s kinda easy come easy go at the micro level.
Further, I kinda hope that ND will get another McCloud or a starting safety out of the transfer portal when it’s all said and done.
I’d probably bet at this point there will be more useful players for 2021 are coming into ND than going out via the transfer portal.
Which is probably a good sign of a healthy program that’s just going to churn out some Franklin’s and Jahmir Smith’s and Isaiah Rutherford’s who wouldn’t really be on the two-deep next year anyways..
Boiling the macro down is the micro level. That doesn’t change the macro level.
Without the context though it doesn’t mean much. The Irish haven’t had anyone enter the portal that they really would have wanted to keep. It’s all grad transfers going out, or players 2+ years in who weren’t on the two-deep. That’s pretty normal roster churn for a top program. Clemson lost more with 2 DT’s going, one of which started when Tyler Davis was out (but also was getting passed up by younger talent).
Right juicebox’s point was that he had already said that: “Yeah, on a micro level, none of these moves are concerning.” So you are agreeing with what he said.
I know what I’m saying, lol.
“On a macro level we just lost a lot of top recruits who are going to be SRs.” doesn’t compute because none of the “top recruits” ended up being “contributing college players” years later
It should compute, because it is exactly what happened. Our top recruits (I never suggested they were top players, in fact exactly stated that the ones who left weren’t a concern) transferred out of the program.
I specifically addressed the micro, with the same conclusion as you (this was irishcampss point. All opinions I stated you agreed with). You then chose to look at the micro and use that to imply my macro statement was somehow false (it was an objective statement with no opinion or conclusion). Essentially, ignoring the concept of macro.
You are taking the micro and saying it is the macro, or at least that the macro exactly reflects the micro. This is a fallacy of composition and the reason that macro and micro levels are analyzed differently. It is important to look at both cases separately.
I did not even draw any conclusions about my macro statement, because it doesn’t make sense to draw macro conclusions about 1 data point. However, I will say, that long term it won’t be good if 4 out of our top 6 recruits every class transfer, even (maybe especially) if they don’t turn out to be good players. That is a statement about recruiting and team building in general, not about the current ND roster.
The last paragraph gets to what I was perhaps not clearly trying to say, and why I was dismissive of the concept of the “macro” viewpoint when it’s only 1 year.
Yeah. We agree on the essence of these specific transfers, which is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you could inject Swarbrick with magical truth serum and ask him if he thinks ND can win a national title within the next 3-5 years, I bet the answer would be, “No, probably not.” Given Kelly’s results against the kind of teams that win national titles, I think that’s pretty much the only reasonable conclusion you can reach.
I also think Swarbrick is banking on big structural changes coming to college football in the near future that will put ND back into a position where it can realistically win national titles. The image and likeness dam is about to break, and I think that’s going to be a huge mess that will inevitably lead to professionalization at the top level of college football. My guess is that Swarbrick is just trying to keep things steady until Bama/Clemson/Georgia/Oklahoma/whoever form the CFL, and ND is automatically at the top of the heap of the non-professional teams.
What big structural changes would put back into a position to win national titles?
Perhaps a split of division 1 would happen but I don’t see how that would help us (maybe it does but that’s not clear to me at this point).
I don’t see that happening. And if it does, what would change? We’d still maybe be the best of the lower tier, not top tier.
Great article. I think you’ve framed things very well here.
A couple additional points of concern that are somewhat follow-ons to points raised in the article:
(1) We’re going to finish outside the top 10 in F+: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaa/fplus/2020. It’s possible that our record obscures a team that actually wasn’t second-tier, or was at the bottom of the second-tier than near the top.
(2) Are we sure Rees is a good offensive coordinator? He either failed as an offensive coordinator or as a QB coach in the Alabama game, unless the goal really was just to lose by a respectable margin.
(2a) Rees is not recruiting QB at the level we need to make the leap. This has been an under-discussed topic. Going three years between Jurkovec and Buchner is borderline inexcusable for a program that’s winning 10 games a season. If Buchner isn’t a big hit, we’re kind of SOL in terms of program improvement.
Agree with all of that. But I don’t quite understand the analytics on this one. We’d be behind teams like Coastal Carolina, Iowa, Iowa st??
I know that it adjusts for opponents but that seems just a bit off at the very least. I think we would handle those teams even on very average days.
But it would be interesting to compare analytic rankings to see where we’ve really been the past 3 years. SP+ I realize is now behind a paywall but it helps to have a few to see it seems.
Do I think we’d lose to Coastal? No not really.
But I feel just as comfortable saying that we’d likely lose to end-of-season Oklahoma, likely decisively, and only less comfortable saying we’d get beat pretty solidly by full-strength end-of-season Georgia. Full strength Florida also could probably have scored 45 on our DBs.
BYU might be overrated there, but they’d have the best player on the field at the most important position on the field, so who knows.
Point being: even if you don’t buy the analytics totally, we were probably closer to the 10th best team this year than the 4th best team.
That’s fair.
Though part of being good in college football is having the depth to make it through a full-season. It seems we may have a leg up on other teams in that 4-8 (or whatever it is) group. Though perhaps it’s just because we don’t have elite players so there’s not a big drop off!
Georgia got hammered by Bama and UF and should have lost to Cincy and yet would beat us “solidly”? BYU too? C’mon man give me a friggin break. Closer to 10th than 4th. sheeesh. You don’t really think we’d lose to Coastal (losers to Liberty)? Well thanks for that.
Georgia was clicking at the end of the season with Daniels as QB, then beat full-strength Cincy while missing a bunch of guys who declared for the draft. I do not think we would have been favored against full-strength Georgia after the Clemson game, and that would have been fair. And nothing from the bowls should have changed that (notwithstanding the identical scoring margin, Georgia played Alabama much better than we did, and that was before they inserted a quarterback who can actually throw more than 15 yards downfield). Really the spread in us vs. BYU before the bowls probably would have been closer than us vs. Georgia.
My point is ND fans thinking we were really the 4th best team in the country might be deluding themselves into complacency. There’s not really a lot of evidence to that effect.
FWIW I do think we’re better than Texas A&M.
Yea I just meant it’s fair that we may not have been solidly/clearly the 4th best team in a one-game situations and that it may have been close games with a handful of those teams.
On the other hand, that doesn’t necessarily take away from us being the “4th” (or 5th – whatever) best program. Since a program does it (a) over multiple seasons and (b) including over a whole season (with depth, etc.).
I think it’s fair to say #4 is going to have a close game with others in the top 10. I don’t think it’s fair to say they’re closer to 10 than 4. Georgia’ s best win was a come from behind 3pt victory over Cincy. Otherwise no one else in the top 25. BYU lost to Coastal Car. Spare me with how good they are vs. ND.
Yea I wasn’t including coastal car. in that, I thought it was fair to say basically top 8 (excluding byu and coast car.) and that teams 4-8 are pretty close in terms of one game at the end of the season.
That’s fair.
I agree. Somebody get real.
Good points! I will bite on numbers 2 and 2a as I wonder about that too. Regarding #2 I sometimes wonder if (a) BK puts down a mandate about certain aspects of the offense which might handcuff Rees into certain strategies (e.g., play conservative, don’t take chances downfield), (b) Rees truly thinks this offense is the best approach, or (c) Rees felt stuck with working around Book’s limitations? With Rees being a former player, does he defer to BK too much? Would Rees like to open up the offense more or is this his deliberate long term strategy to try and build around ND’s recruiting strengths by trying to focus on the OL and TE? Unfortunately, we do not know the answers here.
As for #2a, this is indeed a real issue that I noticed (see my comments earlier). He needs to be going after and getting top QB talent every year. He could take a lesson from Taylor and RB recruiting — even though he swung big and missed on Shipley, he was still able to get some decent guys in this year. With QBs, it seems like most years they are starting by aiming for the decent guys (instead of the stars).
2a: Though if Rees gets Wimsatt this year that’ll be two years in a row getting a legit QB prospect (who is in the top 100 overall). Hopefully (lots of hope here) that would start a trend.
That’s a good point. I think it’s fine to wonder about Rees as OC right now, but a little early and wrong to pin recruiting from 2017-19 on him alone to point to a problem on him.
Also, if he develops Buchner to his potential, that solves an problem that’s been an issue since Jimmy Clausen. And that would be a great thing. Jury is still very much out, and probably not yet even convening though, being as Buchner hasn’t even arrived yet.
But it is fine and fair to say Rees needs to keep reloading as a contingency.
On the other hand, if he doesn’t get Wimsatt but only Angeli (who is a high 3 star), Rees doesn’t develop anyone to be competent this year (though Coan might take the heat off of him for this year), and the offense does figure out how to use whatever strengths it will have next year to have an above average offense, then it could also be a trend that forces ND to look for an improvement at OC. I wish we had a chance at more than 1 top QB (maybe we do, who knows), but it seems like the apples are on one guy and Rees has got to reel him in.
I think we all want Rees to be the brilliant young offensive mind, etc. like the Oklahoma head coach was (and is) but it may not work out that way and we need to move on from him if he doesn’t perform.
Actually, would we take two QB’s again? If Clarke has a severe injury and Pyne is thinking about transferring and Powlus doesn’t threaten anyone, perhaps so. Getting Wimsatt and Angeli would be great (even if Pyne continues to stay).
I think there’s a wink-and-a-nod thing going on with Powlus. He’ll stop taking a football scholarship as soon as it’s inconvenient for the program. Or at least I hope so.
Right. I mean, I think anyways in 2022 it will likely should be Buchner, one of Clark/Pyne on the depth chart and no one else of consequence. That should open it up for who they want.
If they want 2 in 2022, why not? Feels like USC, Georgia, tOSU and other top programs will do that. One of them isn’t going to stay for very long, but the whole point is to try just get the talent and see what sticks.
I definitely wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case.
I bet he stays on scholarship as long as his dad still works for the program. So, he’ll have a scholarship for all 4 years.
Does that count against the 85 limit (in most years)?
Yup, seems like it will count.
We clearly have to do better than a Jurkovec, and probably than Buchner. None of our top rated QB recruits have been championship level.
we’d have to be very lucky with a very special kind of kid to get a Tua, Lawrence, Fields, Burrow, Mayfield, Murray, Lamar Jackson level guy.
1) First, Mike Elston may end up at Purdue as DC. I think they’ll go outside for this one.
2) Breaking through to the elite in 2021 and 2022 has already been set in stone. We aren’t. We’d have needed four 5*s per class with the rest high 4*s over each of the past two recruiting cycles to do that. We didn’t get classes that looked like that. The last two recruiting classes looked much the same as the classes from 2016-2018.
Being elite in year N+1 means recruiting at an elite level in years N through N-2. We have not. If we start NOW, with the 2021 class, I could see ND break through and beat Bama by 2023 at the earliest.
Success next year is seeded in how you recruited the last three. It sucks, but it’s true.
1) interesting. I think that would be a painful loss since he’s done such a great job with our DL over the years and often with less than elite talent.
(2) Yup, that’s true. – not sure we quite have to have quite the amount you say of those elite recruits but the basic thrust is correct. I figure that’s more in the next article but we clearly need some more elite players.
Does Elston’s success with the DL stem from him (ND) being able to identify lower rated players as better prospects, than they are rated ?? If so, is this not what we need more of in recruiting?
No idea what it stems from. Though I would bet it’s more from coaching because we’ve still had our fair share of lower-rated guys come through and transfer. But that could still mean he is able to do a decent job of finding some lower-rated (relatively speaking) that could turn out to be studs. And yes we would need that.
I think Elston is good at getting lower level players who turn out to be good starters on a top 10 team, but all our real studs (Tillery, Tuitt, Rochell, Kareem, Okwara, Day) were pretty highly ranked recruits.
I don’t think we’ve had a 3 star DL get drafted at any point under BK, despite many being good players for us.
Yup, Ade could maybe be the first one this year.
True, but Romeo Okwara has had a hell of a run in the NFL, coming from being an undrafted player and a 3* at that. He’s outperformed on each level! Probably the most rare feat to go from no where to being the best DL on an NFL team in the last three years.
And since I looked him up, he’s only 25 years old still. Feels like he should be ancient by now.
We should probably recruit more 16 year old high school seniors.
You beat me to the 16 yo comment. Julian is only 2 years younger than Romeo, and yet they missed each other in school. I always find that an entertaining tidbit.
That’s the narrative, but I don’t know how much that’s actually true. Daelin Hayes and Khalid Kareem were pretty high 4* (Kareem almost going to Alabama!)…Julian Okwara was a 4*. They’ve had some talent there. They’ve done well developing some players along the way, but all things considered I’d bet they hit higher % and get more out of the higher rated players, generally speaking.
I’d think they need less “projects” and more sure things, if given the opportunity (i.e. more 4* like Foskey and Botelho). But numbers are a problem, ND seemingly gets one of those guys per year. Clemson and Bama are getting 2-3 consistently.
Yea I think that’s true. He’s has recruited pretty well. When I said lower-rated (relatively speaking) right above, i meant (ok while there were some elite recruits) among the lower 4 star players he was able to find the right ones and coach them up to be very very good (and maybe a few 3 star ones to be reliable contributors).
Yeah, that’s right too. From Ade to Jamir Jones to MTA and Hinish, they’ve done well with 3* recently to make the narrative that Notre Dame does well to develop DL be true.
But I mean, if you’re ND, you shouldn’t really want a full line of Ade’s and Hinish’s, you should be wanting to get a 5* like DJ Dale (Bama) or Bryan Breese (Clemson) and then you’re better off on talent. So it’s not like ND is identifying lower ranked guys who are better than eventual 1st round NFL picks or anything, but they have gotten good mileage out of the material they have, for sure.
Very much agree here. They have both done well developing guys, but would still be better with 5 stars. Someone like Tuitt didn’t need an incredible developmental coach to be a stud.
Eric, there’s enough food for thought in this column for a month or two…great piece.
Thanks!
It’s interesting to see what’s going on at USMA right now (ethics) 6 years after the Superintendent (then LTG Caslen) decided that they weren’t going to accept mediocrity in football/sports anymore. Not to suggest an institutional change in philosophy is inherently bad but there is risk… and they’re a better football team.
Re the USMA that was about their cheating scandal?
Kinda like our frozen five.
Eric, yes, that’s what I was referencing. Involves athletes (not exclusively but including football players).
Having taught at USMA (as a ND grad, that was fun) this is a very pertinent observation, IrishSprings. The same thing happened at Navy, with large problems because they had given too much slack to the football program. And of course in the 50’s at Army. Other schools as well. So to pretend our ND administration and senior leadership are not fully aware of this sort of dynamic would be naive.
Considering the national uproar every time ND even slightly veers off the straight and narrow, do you blame the administration for insisting on “fits”. When ND does mess up, someone usually ends up with a NY Times best seller.
Precisely! I do not blame those responsible for the University. To their credit, for a century the Fathers (forgive me, now the administration is broader, I use the term of my earlier years) have been wrestling with what Father Joyce termed dilemmas that come with the “muscular Christianity” (his term) represented by our football program.
Why ND football did not go the way of the Ivies and the U of Chicago is a long story, but in sticking with it, we have built a “brand” that is hard to alter on either end. That entails us being exactly as you said. That’s part of the subtleness of the constraints that BK has to live with every day.
To his credit, he has discovered that high character kids usually with very strong families and at least adequate academics will tend to keep us off the NYT front page. Equally to his credit, he has managed to find just barely enough “developable” 3 stars and good four stars, to blend with the very strong leadership we have had since 2016 to get us to where we are now. But we are bumping up against that glass ceiling you describe.
You only need to look at the well deserved uproar at the mistake Fr. Jenkins made last fall to know what we’re talking about. At how many other schools would that have made national headlines?
The thing with Kelly is that he’s both elite in some regards and falling short in others.
He is great, maybe even elite, at maximizing the output of the talent on the roster. You cannot look at the composition of this team and say he didn’t get the most possible out of them. He’s done it consistently here too, turning the same players Weis had losing senior day games to UConn and Syracuse into winning teams, and going undefeated here with two completely different rosters in 2012 and then 2018+2020. He did the same at Cincinnati.
But even with all of that, he’s still short of the stated goal, despite having three cracks at it. While he can maximize outputs, what he needs are better inputs, and it remains to be seen whether that’s something he’s capable of. I just hesitate to put *all* of that on Kelly, because every other blue blood not named Alabama and OSU can’t figure out how to do it either (well I guess Georgia is consistently landing elite inputs, but they, uh, are not good at maximizing their output).
I would t count Clemson out yet.
Yes, at his core Kelly is a very good football coach.
I think he is too, but I wonder if he’s an ELITE one that can play at this level. He’s absolutely exceptional at the G5, lower P5 level because he can get more out of less. But at places like ND you shouldn’t be GETTING the less. I’m glad he is because it’s what’s keeping us afloat but we really should be getting a larger portion of the top recruits and dominating with them. Then you’d add in the ability of Kelly to get the most out of the bottom of the roster and we’d be off. The problem is, he’s not getting the top of the classes done.
Notre Dame still has a blue chip ratio that gives them a fighting shot against the elite, and they win 10+ games every year. It’s weird to frame it like Kelly is bringing “less” or is a lower P5 talent at ND that just scrapes by. He’s got a lot of very good players that he coaches well and they win a ton of games. Just not the last one against the championship teams that are dominating the sport by recruiting quality/quantity at a rate not seen in modern times.
Nicely put, Hooks!
It depends on your definition of ELITE. If you mean the truly top tier, where you wouldn’t trade your coach for anyone, then clearly not.
If you mean top 10, definitely.
If you mean top 5, probably.
Definitely not an elite recruiter though.
Yeah, I mean ELITE as in you walk into a CFP game favored by 7 points. He’s never going to be that.
I wonder what would happen if he were to be Sagan’s replacement? Not likely, but interesting to contemplate.
Make that Saban, the coach, not Sagan, the stars guy.
In that case, there are only 2 elite coaches right now.
Day has a chance to join that group. No one else seems particularly close.
I am very curious how BK would do at schools like FSU, UF, USC, UGA, UT. Basically a school that recruits itself, in a state with more than 1 top 100 player annually (I think this is an underappreciated recruiting difficulty for ND. From ’18-’22 classes, there were 3 top 100 prospects from IN, 0 top 50. Karlaftis went to Purdue, weird, Fisher to ND, Curry trending towards tOSU).
I don’t think BK is an ELITE recruiter. But I think if you dropped him in any of those other schools his classes would immediately jump 5 spots.
I bet if he were at USC, he’d have top 5ish recruiting classes every year (an ELITE recruiter would compete for #1 at USC), and since the PAC12 is junk he’d be in the playoff 3 out of every 4 years, and be a single digit underdog to Bama. Basically, he would be Lincoln Riley.
On a post Rose Bowl podcast, the day Hermon was fired, one of the beat guys said, “Kelly to Texas” was all the rage. Of course Sark was already in the works but, that talk was from his TX. connections, not something he made up.(though the connections may have)
I think I very much agree with you Juice on how much “better” of a recruiter Kelly would be at easier schools to recruit at.
Yeah. I still don’t think he’d be competing for #1 classes. Him in TX would be interesting. He’d have to compete with Fisher, who is definitely a better recruiter, and Riley, who is comparable to BK, but there is SO much talent. And UT has way more pull than aTm and OU.
If I were him (or anyone), I’d want to be at USC. They just don’t have any recruiting competition. It would probably be tOSU and Bama for the top guys. I think he’d fair decently well against them for CA kids. USC really should be the western tOSU. All they need is a decent coach and recruiter to be a NC contender. Thank god they keep sticking with Helton.
Helton just Landed the #1 player in the country as well as C. Wright who we wanted badly. I don’t think there’s any question Kelly would recruit very well at SC.
Does SC still JuCo guys ?
Great article and great discussion all.
Seeing a lot of noise in the twitter-verse regarding Freeman to LSU. Lots of speculation it’s happening :/
edit: it appears he hasn’t made a decision
Very glad to check back in and read this one especially the 123 comments. Between another soul-crushing CFP loss, and a brutal couple of days, watching you over in the US from over here in ND’s birthplace, you have collectively boosted my morale.
To the point, since most of this is about recruiting, Brendan’s point on the pandemic and us needing to open up on-campus visits is pertinent. because they are critical to getting those good “fits” Eric is belittling. It is not just academics that constrain BK (only being able to academically admit 1/3 of top 100 prospects is astonishing, but “good fit” issues reduce that a lot more.
IMO BK’s issues on recruiting are complex and multifaceted, and I am more in the camp of he has limits he cannot escape. Maybe he is not personally at Saban’s elite recruiter level, I don’t know, but he has done a hell of a lot in the area, as Eric and you have all pointed out. I am not at all sure Saban would have lasted any longer than Urban here, he would not have displayed Kelly’s patience with ND’s over a century old visceral almost instinctive limits in not allowing us to become a “football factory”. (The late 40s were the longest sustained exception, and that period sort of snuck in due to the post-war euphoria of having survived WWII as an institution, and from having a Saban-level coach, Leahy.)
I know the time zones work against you Noise, but I love reading your insights and perspectives and wish you could post more often.
Thanks, Kiwi. The very same to you.
The time zones do make it problematic for me to maintain a rapid dialogue via internet. Sometimes I will take the time to construct a post, and the board has moved on to another article. But this is still a high toned and thoughtful place to be, so really, my deep thanks to all.
I do have some more thoughts on recruiting. Eric is exactly right to accentuate its importance — it’s only that I do think that the barriers are more subtle and complex than his analysis shows. But even despite that, he is right to keep pushing. When up against hard limits and obstacles, when already having devoted enormous efforts to solving those problems, it is truly hard to re-summon the desire to keep pushing, to search in what really amounts to desperation to find nooks and crannies and clever ways to gain extra edges. That BK managed the post 2016 reboot; that at the end of the 2019 season he said he had been wrong to settle for less than top 5 classes, and that the pandemic short-circuited his best path to persuade kids like Shipley (getting them to visit) — leaves me some hope that he can try again. He kind of said so after the Sugar Bowl if you look at it. Maybe what the 18 Stripes board can do is think even harder ourselves on fresh and ingenious ways to improve. So I propose a dedicated article putting together in one place what we know on current ND recruiting techniques, with a collective brainstorming to come up with innovative ideas.